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About Rodney McKay and firearms....

  • Aug. 27th, 2006 at 10:49 AM
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
It feels to me that Rodney's reputation for weapons inadequacy is undeserved, so I went through all the episodes I could remember him using a gun.


The Defiant One: We were not given reason to believe that he couldn't hit the Wraith; rather, he did appear to hit it each time -- if he hadn't, there would have been a hazard to Sheppard, since he was directly behind the target.  This did not seem to cause Rodney to hesitate. 

Rodney had to be reminded to reload.

Siege, Part 3: Rodney is ready to fire on the approaching Wraith, but accidentally ejects the clip, probably instead of disengaging the safety.

Runner: Rodney's skill was disparaged by Ford -- not his aim in particular, but the likelihood of accidental discharge.  Then Ford disarms McKay.  Later, Ford returns the weapon when they appear to be under threat, without any demeaning warnings one might expect toward a crappy shot.  Then, in a face off, Rodney shoots Ford in the shoulder -- which makes sense if a) Rodney would aim for the shoulder in an attempt to incapacitate rather than kill (as implied by his statement immediately prior, and later while hanging upside down), and b) Rodney can hit where he's aiming.  When that doesn't have the expected effect and Rodney flees, shooting into the air looks pretty silly, but it is effective as far as establishing location and danger is concerned, and he's already established that shooting Ford doesn't do a lot of good.

The Long Goodbye: Out of everyone in and near the room, Sheppard turns over his weapon to Rodney.  Shortly thereafter, under fire, Rodney shoots 3 times toward Sheppard's body controlled by a hostile alien consciousness, but doesn't actually hit him and hits him once in a non-vital but non-disabling place.  Beckett tells him not to shoot, for fear of him hitting Sheppard.

Sateda:  Beckett discounts Rodney's skill, saying "And you're a terrible shot."  Rodney doesn't deny it.

Common Ground: Spooked, Rodney opens fire with a P-90 on what turns out to be a mouse.  Or perhaps a rat.  At any rate, afterward, it is a dead mouse.  Hitting a moving target that size is not as easy as it looks.  Trust me.

My biased opinion: Rodney has the background, the hand-eye coordination, and enough experience to be a good shot, even an excellent one.  A site picture is a site picture, and Rodney hits what he aims at, when he bothers to aim.  However, he's not experienced enough with firearms or combat to keep his cool under pressure (failure to reload, clip ejection, losing skill when under fire) or be considered an expert.  Knowing that safeties and ejection buttons exist is not the same as knowing instinctively and reflexively which to use when.  He may not correct Beckett's misconception about his skill because a) he may feel that if he's not the best in the field, his skill is not worth pointing out, b) protesting too much gives the opposite impression, or c) he gets enough crap from Beckett already from exaggerating his ailments and he'd rather not expose himself to more mockery.  I think he gets too much flak in fandom for being a crap shot because a) we're taking Carson's word for it, b) we're equating general weapons expertise with the ability to hit a target, or c) we're being blinded by McKay's own unease.  For all that he's never missed when he's aiming, he's also never displayed any significant confidence with weapons.


Details gathered from transcripts at Gateworld, where it's way too easy to see spoilers for much of Season 3.  However, I'm not particularly sad about this.

Comments

[identity profile] ficbyzee.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 05:57 pm (UTC)
Oooh. This was really interesting, thanks!
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:27 pm (UTC)
Thanks!
zoerayne: (Default)
[personal profile] zoerayne wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC)
Good points, and you address the apparent disparity in his skill level in a way I hadn't thought about. Thanks!
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:31 pm (UTC)
Thank you!
[identity profile] shadowserenity.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC)
Terrific post.

"Common Ground" summed up Rodney's skill fairly well for me: he had a P-90 whereas Carson was assigned a sidearm.

I also think Rodney cops a lot of flak for his piloting skills, most of which is also unwarranted, don't you think?
[identity profile] amireal.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC)
I think Rodney won't claim to be an expert in anything until he's very very sure he is.

He disparages his own skills at flying in Epiphany, though its been a year and he could easily have learned a lot since then.

I think guns and flying were just not skill sets he ever imagined learning, nor were they things that simply dropped at his feet as EASY and that is very new to him. Having to try and learn for these things in completely different ways than he had to for the science and the math.
(no subject) - [identity profile] shadowserenity.livejournal.com - Aug. 27th, 2006 06:53 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 27th, 2006 06:55 pm (UTC)
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC)
Thanks!

Hmmm. I don't recall as many instances of Rodney piloting, just the one with the HUD display of "straight line" vs "Rodney's path." I also remember in Epiphany where Rodney hopes Elizabeth got them a real pilot because he doesn't trust Carson and he "can't fly in a straight line." Might it be tension induced? Certainly. Might it be a cover for "I want to be busy setting up the tech while someone else flies"? I'd put more money on that. Might Rodney be a bit crooked on the long path but fine close in? Possibly. But overall, I'd like to see more occasions of him flying before making a call. Do you have other episodes in mind off the top of your head? Because I wouldn't exactly be put out if I (oh, woe) had to watch them again.
(no subject) - [identity profile] smittywing.livejournal.com - Aug. 27th, 2006 06:57 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 27th, 2006 07:04 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] shadowserenity.livejournal.com - Aug. 27th, 2006 06:59 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] zoniduck.livejournal.com - Aug. 29th, 2006 08:08 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 29th, 2006 01:59 pm (UTC)
ext_7816: Smitty flying his doghouse into battle! (Default)
[identity profile] smittywing.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:49 pm (UTC)
Dude, this is great! I was saying to [livejournal.com profile] greenygal the other day that I was fine with him dropping the clip in Siege 3, but after Defiant One, I disliked how utterly incompetent he came off in Season 2. The only thing is that I'd rather have a guy in the field who's a bad shot than one who panics and blatantly disregards basic gun safety, which the writers want to play for laughs. (And actually, because it's obviously played for laughs, like the citrus allergy, it doesn't bother me too much.) Did he miss John in The Long Goodbye? I thought he might have winged the same arm that was hit in The Defiant One. I guess I'll just have to watch it again. Oh, the tragedy!
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:56 pm (UTC)
Really? I'll have to watch it, too, because I was taking Gateworld's word for it.
(no subject) - [identity profile] smittywing.livejournal.com - Aug. 27th, 2006 07:09 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 27th, 2006 10:08 pm (UTC)
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:57 pm (UTC)
And thanks!
[identity profile] shadowserenity.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC)
Your comments remind me of a post I read concerning that Siege 3 scene. Apparently it's quite difficult to hit eject when you're going for the safety. Must have taken some fiddling on David's part for it to play right.
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 27th, 2006 09:15 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] anitac588.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 09:06 pm (UTC)
I disliked how utterly incompetent he came off in Season 2.
I think in the commentaires somenone hinted that they are aware that fans are pissed about it. You'd think they'd work on that in the Season 3.
[identity profile] shusu.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:51 pm (UTC)
It explains why we've seen him shoot without looking so often.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 06:59 pm (UTC)
Thanks for stopping by!

Can you elaborate on that?
(no subject) - [identity profile] shusu.livejournal.com - Aug. 27th, 2006 07:26 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] melibabe.livejournal.com - Aug. 28th, 2006 12:01 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 28th, 2006 12:10 am (UTC) Expand
Firing without looking - [identity profile] kiranovember.livejournal.com - Aug. 30th, 2006 03:24 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] imwithrebel.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 07:05 pm (UTC)
Actually, Rodney did hit Sheppard in his left arm in TLG. Here you can see a small hole in John's sleeve. (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1857/the5flong5fgoodbye322ns1.jpg) And here, Thalen is bandaging that wound. (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7866/the5flong5fgoodbye434gz0.jpg)
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 09:17 pm (UTC)
Ooh! I'll edit!
[identity profile] zyna-kat.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 08:28 pm (UTC)
Hi! Here via... oh, I have no idea where I got this link.

This is a great discussion--Rodney shooting. I'll add a few scenes:

- in Aurora, when the Wraith wakes up, Rodney panics, flails, and fires his sidearm while running away. He seems to hit (or come very close to hitting) the Wraith, with every shot.

- in The Long Goodbye, Rodney panics and flails and shoots, and does hit John. (Oddly enough, in the same place the Super-Wraith hits John in The Defiant One.)

My conclusion: Rodney is and can be a damned good shot. But when he thinks about it too much (like in Siege), his nerves overcome his instinct, and he doesn't do as well.

YMMV, of course. :)
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:12 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I'd forgotten about the scene in Aurora!
[identity profile] anitac588.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 08:59 pm (UTC)
Thank you for this overview!
I wholeheartedly agree with abc points!
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:13 pm (UTC)
Thank you for coming by!
[identity profile] bunni2001.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:21 pm (UTC)
What about the first episode of this season when that Queen wraith wakes up after they board the Hive ship and she attacks... I think it was Lorne. He aims and it seriously looks like he shoots her with Sheppard. Though if you rewind and watch in slow you can see his weapon doesn't fire but he WOULD have hit her if he'd pulled the trigger.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:48 pm (UTC)
Hard to classify, since he didn't actually fire, but the context was another "under threat" one, and he had two veterans there with him. I probably would have held fire, too, unless I had a perfectly clear shot.
[identity profile] laceymcbain.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:31 pm (UTC)
mckay and guns
This was fantastic because I've often thought about how to reconcile the apparent up-and-down relationship of Rodney and guns, and I like the way you've explained it. When pushed to, when it counts, Rodney can do what he needs to do with a gun ... The Defiant One is one of those episodes I love him for because he nails that Wraith because Sheppard's life depends on it ... but he needs to be told to reload. I think the lack of familiarity in a combat situation is definitely a factor.

To add to that there's also a line in Coup D'Etat where Rodney and John are going to meet with the Genii and Rodney says something along the lines of: "I don't think you've sufficiently trained me to be much good in a shoot 'em up kind of situation." Something like that which suggests a) that Sheppard's been training him and b) that theory and application are different (much as you've suggested.) It's one thing to handle a weapon in a shooting range and another to do it when you're running for your life. I think, too, that Rodney tends to be more confident with a weapon when Sheppard is there - he's usually only doing the point and blindly fire when Sheppard's not around (or when he's shooting at alienconsciousness!Sheppard.)

Carson in general seems to have been awfully critical of Rodney this season, and it feels a bit out of character for me.

Thanks for an interesting look at the issue - I very much agree with what you've said here.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:55 pm (UTC)
Re: mckay and guns
Good point about Coup d'Etat
From here:

McKAY (to John): You know, I'm not sure that you've sufficiently trained me in actual combat. I-I-I don't know how much use I'd be in a fight-our-way-out kind of scenario.

SHEPPARD: Well, I look at it this way: the Genii have tried to kidnap you on numerous occasions to mine that big old brain of yours.

McKAY: Yes.

SHEPPARD: Well, if we get into trouble, I'll just trade your life for mine.

McKAY: Oh, funny.

SHEPPARD: Don't worry -- if you survive, I'll mount some sort of rescue mission ... eventually.


(Sorry, I had to do the rest because it makes me giggle)
Re: mckay and guns - [identity profile] laceymcbain.livejournal.com - Aug. 28th, 2006 04:38 am (UTC)
Re: mckay and guns - [identity profile] hth-the-first.livejournal.com - Aug. 28th, 2006 03:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: mckay and guns - [personal profile] jic - Aug. 29th, 2006 12:14 am (UTC)
[identity profile] ceares.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:47 pm (UTC)
Here from the newsletter. I love the idea of Rodney's improving skill with firearms, and this is a great overview. I'll definitely be paying more attention to circumstances when he shoots. Thanks.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2006 10:58 pm (UTC)
Scan the comments, too! There were a couple instances folk pointed out that I had missed.

Thanks for coming by!
[identity profile] toasteronfire.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 02:00 am (UTC)
Bummed over here from the newsletter.

Great comprehensive review. At this point, I'm not sure if Rodney's iffyness with firearms is due to writer non-continuity or how they just LOVE having Rodney do something stupid to get the laughs. Either way, I'd like to see him stay consistently competent with a gun - you would think they wouldn't let him on the team with a weapon to begin with if he wasn't.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 02:26 am (UTC)
Yes. I love competence a really, really lot.

Thanks for coming by!
[identity profile] cesperanza.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 05:13 am (UTC)
Oh, THANKS for this; Rodney with a gun is just one of my favorite things ever, and damn, I wish they'd let him be--not great, but unremarked upon! That would be FIINE!
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 05:26 am (UTC)
You're welcome! and thank you!

Yeah. Even if it just went without saying, that'd be good.
[identity profile] sgafan33.livejournal.com wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 09:19 am (UTC)
I've always maintained that Rodney is a good shot if he didn't panic. A genius with a degree in mechanical engineering as well as an astrophysicist, I think he can calculate the correct angle to hold his gun if he didn't freak out with impending death looming at him.

Also, I think Rodney would think he wasn't a good shot if he wasn't perfect at it. He's just that kind of person.

Killing a mouse with a P90 should be easy. Rapid, multiple bullets and all. Killing one with a sidearm would be a lot tougher.

BTW, Rodney also shot a P90 at a Wraith in "Suspicion", as well as use a taser on it.

Thanks for this interesting post.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 29th, 2006 12:04 am (UTC)
Thank you for coming by! Good point about Rodney's perception.

As a friend said, "spray and pray ain't that hard." ...except even with a .22 repeater at close range and with no kick at all to disrupt your aim, shooting a squirrel isn't all that easy. OTOH, you're right that it is much harder with a sidearm.

Thanks for the heads-up about Suspicion! I'll have to go check it out.
tarlanx: Blue butterfly on books on rainbow colored background (Default)
[personal profile] tarlanx wrote:
Aug. 28th, 2006 12:26 pm (UTC)
I agree with you. When he aims, he hits what he aims at but he is not a professional soldier trained to remain calm in battle. I think it's his fear within the situation that fails him rather than his ability to hold and shoot a weapon.
jic: Daniel Jackson (SG1) firing weapon, caption "skill to do comes of doing" (Default)
[personal profile] jic wrote:
Aug. 29th, 2006 12:05 am (UTC)
*nods* yeah.

Thanks for coming over :)

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